Khrys
Full Member
Posts: 130
|
Post by Khrys on Jun 24, 2010 22:37:27 GMT -8
I'm in travel status once again on Friday, and my plane arrives around bedtime. I'll not have a post until Sat.
No worries, as Kenneth is not an initiator, so I feel confident that you can do a day's play without needing to include K's motions. He'll simply stick with whatever happens in Heloise's vicinity and go with the flow.
Now that the guard's got a grip on her, I see K just nodding and following the herd toward the locked door.
|
|
|
Post by jazzs3quence on Jun 25, 2010 8:22:10 GMT -8
shouldn't Persuasion or Intimidation or Cheat or any other diplomacy-type action be handled as a contested action in that case, though, like any other struggle/conflict?
It seems to me that someone's skill at conning/lying/intimidating/charming has just as much possibility of having an effect (and therefore would warrant a roll) against someone who's determined to make things work out his way as anyone else (and therefore would warrant a roll). In the case of the gunner downstairs, he already gave up, so the Intimidate roll wouldn't need to be done, so that's fine. But the roll log says "no opposed rolls" and I don't think that's the case, the guard is opposing everyone's attempt to get him to put the gun down, calm down, listen, etc, and therefore that should have just as much of a roll attached to it as combat IMO.
|
|
|
Post by Gravedust on Jun 25, 2010 8:48:03 GMT -8
Well.. Let's look at the various points being argued by the players last round:
Claire: Move or I'll shoot you, Mechanic be damned. (He's not in her way, she can get to the door if she wants. ...I probably should have made that point clearer.)
Helo: Shoot this guy!
Ellie: Help us out so we can all get out of this alive! (This is already what he's planning on doing. Or at least not opposing them while they try to fix the ship)
Kenneth: Everyone else is dead and you're fucked. (He knew this already.. that's why he took a hostage in the first place. To keep from being shot out of hand by escaped convicts.)
So... Really, none of this had any effect on him or his plan (such as it is). The things they were trying to convince him of either were things he was already planning on doing, or had no relevance. So I didn't bother rolling for 'em.
|
|
|
Post by jazzs3quence on Jun 25, 2010 9:06:19 GMT -8
so, since claire is the only one with a gun (and thus, presumably the one with the most leverage against his primary goal which is surviving), and had said, specifically "put the gun down or i will shoot" then that would have warranted a roll, but since she didn't specifically say that (just sort of implied it), that doesn't qualify as being an opposed action. yes?
|
|
|
Post by Gravedust on Jun 25, 2010 9:14:09 GMT -8
so, since claire is the only one with a gun (and thus, presumably the one with the most leverage against his primary goal which is surviving), and had said, specifically "put the gun down or i will shoot" then that would have warranted a roll, but since she didn't specifically say that (just sort of implied it), that doesn't qualify as being an opposed action. yes? Oop. Good point, and you are correct. I focused more on the "Get out of the way ' and less on the 'gun down or I'll cap you' I'll try'n be more careful with my parsing in the future. Yesterday sort of sucked. : / ..also, quote is right next to 'modify' -_-
|
|
|
Post by Gravedust on Jun 25, 2010 11:04:46 GMT -8
Wow, sorry, today is sort of busy, but I'll try to get to the post when I can.. I also had a reading comprehension fail on that last post, so let me re-answer that: Well.. If she said 'gun down or I'll shoot'... He'd sort of assume that once he put the gun down she'd shoot him anyway (since, you know, she already did) Which makes his choices: "Put the gun down and get shot.. or keep the gun up and get shot." Not exactly a compelling choice either way, sort of like trying to convince a man hanging off the edge of a cliff to let go of the rope he's holding onto. Even so I'd probably make it a high-difficulty roll just in case the threat had a chance of sort of scaring him into putting his gun down. Anyway.. I think going forward it would be best to consider persuasion rolls not as a "Make NPC do this" kind of a thing, but rather a "Make NPC -believe- this" which would then maybe influence his actions. For instance, you could try and make him believe that you wouldn't shoot him if he put his gun down. (still sort of a long shot after someone just shot him, but hey.) Anyway, I think in the future it'd be best if when anyone tries to make a persuasion roll the they specify as well as they can what they want the target to believe, in case it isn't clear from the text. (In the case of intimidate rolls I guess you want the target to believe you're capable of kicking their ass. )
|
|
|
Post by danielle1 on Jun 25, 2010 11:18:54 GMT -8
So would I, for example....want to have made him believe I was his only choice to get his arse save and thus "hey guard stop that and follow my lead and you'll live"?
|
|
|
Post by Gravedust on Jun 25, 2010 11:39:58 GMT -8
If you could somehow convince him that he WOULD live if he followed you, (i.e. give him an actual reason, not just "LOL, trust me!") then that might work. He really seriously doubts that, though. Before anything else you would need to address the fact that he's certain you all want to kill him.
|
|
|
Post by DeleriusDruid on Jun 25, 2010 11:56:32 GMT -8
((Heh, FINALLY that guard is gone. And now I must go afk for a week. Thank you all for making this week a very enjoyable one, can't wait to get back and play some more on the 5th )
|
|
|
Post by brendur on Jun 25, 2010 11:59:54 GMT -8
((later man! See you then!))
|
|
|
Post by jazzs3quence on Jun 25, 2010 13:36:08 GMT -8
Anyway, I think in the future it'd be best if when anyone tries to make a persuasion roll the they specify as well as they can what they want the target to believe, in case it isn't clear from the text. (In the case of intimidate rolls I guess you want the target to believe you're capable of kicking their ass. ) For our part (by which I mean e and me), yeah, we pretty much decided the same thing. For example, the actual bluff was that she didn't care about Helo getting shot (she did), and the non-bluff was that she actually would have followed through with what she said if he put the gun down, let Helouise go, etc...and it would have been helpful to state that more explicitly, as well as what the intended/desired response was. BUT! it's still just the first week and we're working out the kinks, by which I mean, it's all good. or something.
|
|
|
Post by Gravedust on Jun 25, 2010 13:42:08 GMT -8
Myeah, that is zee purpose of the tests, anyway, is to get all the shizz that I didn't think of nailed down. And I expect there'll be a fair amount of that over the course.. but at least we haven't run into any showstoppers.
|
|
|
Post by jazzs3quence on Jun 25, 2010 13:48:24 GMT -8
I think mostly that was more of an issue of the format (e.g. forum rp) rather than the game itself, per se, however, I do think that in a sitch like that where the guard is set in one particular course and someone is trying to convince/lie/persuade/intimidate/whatever him out of it, it should be like a contested action, player's Charm/Impress/Intimidate + Relevant Special Stat vs opponent's Charm/Impress/Intimidate + Special (e.g. Lie Detector)
sort of a "it takes one to know one" deal...the better you are at doing it, the better you would be at resisting...
|
|
|
Post by Gravedust on Jun 25, 2010 14:09:17 GMT -8
In the specific case of the guard, they were specifically trying to get him to do something that he absolutely would never do in that position. (Put the gun down/ let go of Helo)
I likened it to trying to convince a man hanging off a cliff to let go of the rope that's holding him up. It's just not going to happen if the guy has any sense.
So in this specific case, using that tack wasn't effective at all. There are other methods that had at least a chance at succeeding, as I explained.
Anyway. please don' t take this one incident as an example of how all the the persuasion rolls in the game would go. This was more of the exception than the rule.
|
|
|
Post by danielle1 on Jun 25, 2010 14:18:39 GMT -8
OK I must have some lag with this site as I didnt see the post of Marty?? However popped their head into the compartment we are in...did he come from where we want to go?
|
|
|
Post by Gravedust on Jun 25, 2010 14:34:53 GMT -8
>>Marty walked back through the cargo room to the ladder and pulled himself up. He walked into the next room and paused, seeing the stalemate in front of him.
Nope. he came from downstairs.
|
|
|
Post by brendur on Jun 25, 2010 16:55:34 GMT -8
I would like to institute a round of applause for "fluxxored". gonna make a habit of using it every day, along with frak, gorram, and frell.
|
|
|
Post by DeleriusDruid on Jun 25, 2010 17:15:08 GMT -8
I would like to institute a round of applause for "fluxxored". gonna make a habit of using it every day, along with frak, gorram, and frell. *clap clap clap clap clap* Actually, the quality of all the RP here (except for mine) is amazing, it's fun just to read! (and I'm definitely still afk)
|
|
|
Post by jazzs3quence on Jun 25, 2010 18:15:24 GMT -8
I would like to institute a round of applause for "fluxxored". gonna make a habit of using it every day, along with frak, gorram, and frell. *takes a bow* wow, thank you I'd like to thank the Academy, my mom, Ronald Moore and David Frakking Eick...
|
|
|
Post by brendur on Jun 25, 2010 19:31:34 GMT -8
(( hmm so am I to assume the Captain had nothing of importance on him Grave?
|
|
|
Post by jazzs3quence on Jun 25, 2010 19:36:00 GMT -8
...and a hearty WOO! to all for not getting us killed! hip hip! hooray! seriously, though, good job everyone (esp. Mr. Gravedust for assembling us here and giving us something awesome to play with . can't wait for next week. oooon another note... ((yeah, back is where i put the Highwind. for now, anyway. first chance he gets, Dexter is going to dissect it. ;D)) maybe now I'll get a chance to listen to all the tracks that brendur added to the airship pirate music thread (and download them, and add them to the soundtrack...)
|
|
|
Post by Gravedust on Jun 25, 2010 21:58:20 GMT -8
(( hmm so am I to assume the Captain had nothing of importance on him Grave? Oops.. I'll get that sorted on Monday, too.
|
|
|
Post by Gravedust on Jun 27, 2010 19:08:20 GMT -8
Busier weekend that I was expecting, didn't quite get done... Expect something tomorrow, though.
|
|
|
Post by e on Jun 28, 2010 20:20:01 GMT -8
Would it work to close rounds later at night or in the a.m. because some of us (well, me) can't post at all or as much sometimes until after 7,8, 9, 10 sometimes after small humans are sleeping?
|
|
|
Post by danielle1 on Jun 28, 2010 21:52:34 GMT -8
Would it work to close rounds later at night or in the a.m. because some of us (well, me) can't post at all or as much sometimes until after 7,8, 9, 10 sometimes after small humans are sleeping? I really wasn't available today but maybe we can set a time that we all know NOT to post after a certain time? Say 12pm pacific or something? I dont know Anyway will post tomorrow...pretned I was so happy driving the ship I just zoned out or something? LOL
|
|
|
Post by Gravedust on Jun 29, 2010 0:33:11 GMT -8
Welll I try to do it around 8pm my time (pacific) I can hold off a while longer if need be, to say like 10pm without too much trouble.
The reason I do like to do it early though is tabulating everything and writing up a response (when applicable) can take 30-mins to an hour or slightly more, depending.
Tonight I was a little earlier than normal since I had stuff to do later.
But yeah, I ought to be able to back it up some.
|
|
|
Post by e on Jun 29, 2010 9:47:11 GMT -8
Yes, please! Completely understand not wanting to be up all night formulating the next round update however. I think, for me, when the round opens earlier so it's up for a longer time it will be easier to get on and post more (which I really want to do since this game is so frakking fun). ;D
|
|
|
Post by Gravedust on Jun 29, 2010 9:57:29 GMT -8
((Well I'm glad you're having a good time. Yesterday it didn't get it out till late because I didn't get a chance to do it sunday night and monday was sort of busy-ish at work in the morning... Usually I try to have them out a little sooner...))
|
|
|
Post by Gravedust on Jul 1, 2010 14:05:55 GMT -8
Just a side note to put the Bethesda's cannon power into perspective.
It's a Damage 8 Cannon, (Different damage scales are used for people and ships.. In people terms that Damage 80 or thereabouts...) So a shot from point blank range would take 8 points off the bulkhead armor of a ship (I think you could overcharge it Damage 9 or something like that)
Most military warships have at least 20 armor on their outer bulkheads, so it basically takes 3 point blank shots to get through a bulkhead and have any chance of damaging internals. (Bethesda is armored like a brick shithouse, but then it was initially designed as a military transport by a country whose philosophy on the subject was: 'build them as tough and cheap as you can, and some of them will probably survive.')
For further reference, you average military cannon (at the time of writing anyway) is damage 16-20.
Highest theoretical Cannon damage is 50 Overcharged to 60.
|
|
|
Post by brendur on Jul 2, 2010 18:04:30 GMT -8
....wow okay so's now blowing up is about to happened, which is fine. But brings up something I need to ask about, Tom posted with a question, no answer. I figured we were going to pick up from there with the next couple of posts, but suddenly it's night time. Tom specifically said he was going to give the crew about 5 hours time to pull that hat, and I had intended for him to go about with one last offer of the rucksack before he went and tossed all those bodies off the boat himself. Suddenly here we are with night time and grenade pins being pulled, what now?
|
|